general question

[emchy]

do you react differently when reading posts about people's weight loss depending on their gender?

recently noticed by me - when men talk about working out and weight loss its read as dealing with a health issue and self care, when women talk about it its seen as pandering to the body police and being self hating.  just an observation that seems to hold interesting water in terms of a continued policing of female behavior.

thoughts? 

Comments

[smmopah.livejournal.com]

guys are vain and self hating too...they just dare not speak it. So talk about health all you want, it's probably about staying attractive to some degree.

[cindymonkey.livejournal.com]

this is true - but my question isn't about the motivations behind the person losing weight - but about how it's reacted to by others

[smmopah.livejournal.com]

no clue on that. I personally don't filter this way.

[demolitionwoman.livejournal.com]

i think you make a really good point. on the one hand, there's this whole fat-positive/body-positive movement that (i think) is really important, especially when it comes to women's body image. on the other hand, with some folks that pendulum has swung so far in that direction that any talk of losing weight is seen as betrayal, as copping out somehow. i think it comes from a place of defensiveness. i know that i personally have had to stop myself several times from saying something cruel about skinny folks (usually because i'm hanging out with a friend of mine who is quite thin). for me, it's definitely a knee-jerk defensive reaction - i can't speak for others.

i just wish that instead of feeling like we have to say "fat is good, all the time!", we could just say "feel good and healthy in your body to the best of your ability!"...or something like that.

[nerak-g.livejournal.com]

YES!

[0ntological.livejournal.com]

agreed!

[cindymonkey.livejournal.com]

i think you've nailed it. i believe in the body positive and Healthy at any Size movements. But the key there is ANY size. Right now I am starting to get knee problems and advanced asthma that kick in when i go over a certain weight. I don't think i am no longer cute - but i am getting uncomfortable and less healthy for my body. And yet i feel like a traitor to post about how i am struggling to better my health around this as if i am contributing to fat phobia to talk about my own journey. Meanwhile I saw a post from a male pal today talking about the ashtma and the weight and working towards feeling healthy and i saw myself reacting differently to it than i would for a woman. and it got me thinking...

[goodbadgirl.livejournal.com]

"And yet i feel like a traitor to post about how i am struggling to better my health around this as if i am contributing to fat phobia to talk about my own journey. Meanwhile I saw a post from a male pal today talking about the ashtma and the weight and working towards feeling healthy and i saw myself reacting differently to it than i would for a woman. and it got me thinking..."

Yes, honey. I think this is definitely true. Although I do know fat dudes who worry about losing the friendship and support of the fat community if they want to lose weight.

I really, really hate this. It is all about policing and it's not ok. I used to have many arguments with this "fat positive" woman who would say just the most awful, cruelest things about people who have had weight loss surgery. If similar things were said about fat people she'd have been up in arms!

I have always argued that we must strive to love and accept and support other women *in their path, in their own bodies* whatever that path may be. I fear I'm often not heard because, well, I'm fat and people assume I'm *only* talking about fat acceptance, when I'm really talking about getting our hands, thoughts and opinions off of other women's bodies, where it does not belong.

For what it's worth - I love you and I support you in anything you chose to do with your own body (I mean, if you decided to start shooting smack I probably wouldn't be supportive, but short of that...)

You are beautiful and perfect to me no matter what.

Whatever you do to make yourself feel happy and healthy will find me cheering for you from the sidelines.

And, I think in the meantime, fuck the haters.

And, hell yes, there's a double standard. Hell yes.

xo

[0ntological.livejournal.com]

I have found that if you are a woman and talk about your weight the way I do, no matter what, you can't win. People will attack you for hating yourself, and people will attack you for not hating yourself enough.

Yeah. I'm working out. I'm losing weight. It's for artistic and athletic reasons. I wanna be buff, not skinny, and I wish people could deal.

yay double standards!

[cindymonkey.livejournal.com]

you know - buff does indeed rock. and double standards fuck em. it just feels like for all intents and purposes no matter how you talk about your body - if you're female - then you're wrong. men can talk about theirs, and men can talk about women's but women can't have agency that isn't criticized - often by other women. seems like there is some bullshit to unpack there you know?

[animikwaan.livejournal.com]

i think from han gin g around a buncha amateur national athletes pretty consistently for the past two years, it has changed my opinion about how women deal with working out/self care. to us, it's about being buff, in shape, strong, powerful, and ready to rawk. we actually use "strong" and "powerful" a lot when talking about our physical goals as it relates to skill.... but, i know this is not the case fo r most women. i do believe that a lot of men have similar self-hate/image issues as it relates to fat-negativity. i see it morphing over time. it'd be nice if it morphed into body-positivity, in general.

[0ntological.livejournal.com]

Powerful, yes!
I need to be able to lift myself onto a trapeze easily, you know? I have to be extra buff to compensate for the fact that I don't have a ballet dancer's body, and I'm cool with that!

muscles really are hot, imo

[gordonzola.livejournal.com]

do you react differently when reading posts about people's weight loss depending on their gender?

Nah, like dream posts, I read neither. ;)

[imnotandrei.livejournal.com]

do you react differently when reading posts about people's weight loss depending on their gender?

No, but I'm a fat man, with a lot of other fat men (bears and otherwise) on my friends-list. Which feels like it skews things; any gender-based weight is overwhelmed by identification-weight, if that makes sense?

[cindymonkey.livejournal.com]

completely

[paraplegic.livejournal.com]

Absolutely. That's exactly how I feel about men/women weight loss.

[stopword.livejournal.com]

I think I do read differently, because the posts tend to be written differently. A lot of the women seemed overwhelmed and hopeless at the start of a weight loss program, and then as they persevere and succeed they get bouncy and happy and excited about it.

Guys usually seem to be bouncy and happy about the weight loss program once they make the decision to embark.

Also, I identify very heavily with women and much less so with men, so I read men's posts as interesting information, and I read women's posts in a much more complex way - comparing myself to them in every way from their starting weight to how much exercise they can fit in.

An interesting question.

[pantryslut.livejournal.com]

I don't. But I think I am an exception.

I think my feelings on weight loss are overall too complex to go into in a comment here. I try to respect other people's choices, but focusing on a number goal rather than an embodied feeling always bothers me, and watching people beat *themselves* up will always bother me.

[elusis.livejournal.com]

I hate reading about anybody's weight loss stuff.

And to clarify: I hate it because at this point I feel pretty clear that diets don't work, and yet dieting is held up as this virtuous activity. No matter what, no matter how miserable dieting makes you, no matter how little chance of "success" it has, you are supposed to be engaging in it, particularly if you are 1) a woman, and/or 2) fat. Heaven forbid you are both.

Mortification of the flesh is not optional and is a sign of whether or not you are a good person. I dislike even witnessing that mindset and the cultural approval that comes with it, as well as being expected to participate in it.

[demolitionwoman.livejournal.com]

I'd agree with you that diets don't work, with an addendum:

for the past few years, when i think of the word "diet", i tend think of ways to change my eating habits long-term in ways that are healthier for my body and my palate. i.e. how can i take better care of myself, bodily and spiritually (cuz food is also about the soul, not just the body!) i don't think of any of the "programs" that are out there because they are not comprehensive, long-term, healthy, etc.

i think of changing my diet vs going on a diet.

[elusis.livejournal.com]

We really lack a way of talking about eating in different ways (more thoughtfully, more intuitively, more organically, more locally, whatever) that isn't implicitly or explicitly connected with the expectation that it will lead to weight loss. The same is true for adopting exercise or a physical hobby. The connection to weight loss always creeps in, even if it's through the code "getting healthier."

[0ntological.livejournal.com]

i think of changing my diet vs going on a diet.

exactly! I like to eat stuff like kale cause it tastes good and because it makes me feel good, not because I am on a diet. There's definitely an important difference.

Also, weight-loss is not always about dieting. I have NEVER gone on a diet. I lost 20 pounds once by exercise only (and I think not being depressed helped). It was stuff I loved- capoeira, yoga, and aerial dance. I had an "aha" moment where I was in my body, working with it in a dance move instead of being angry at it. I was learning to treat my body with love and appreciation, rather than the other way around. That is not to suggest that everyone needs to have my body to love and appreciate it. It means I have found what is right for me, and it has nothing to do with dieting and everything to do with enjoyable physical activity and a delicious, healthy diet.

[elusis.livejournal.com]

Kale is so awesome. I have just really started enjoying kale.

I had a really hard time not being depressed and self-hating a few years ago when I went from zero organized exercise, to two dance classes and six hours of rehearsal a week plus much more daily walking, and failed to lose weight. (I realized part of the solution was to stop getting on the damn scale, but even so the "why isn't my waist smaller?" kicks in.)

Like I said above, it's really tragic that we have no way to talk about altering our food intake or our body movement habits that isn't implicitly or explicitly connected to the expectation that it will result in weight loss, or at least fat loss.

[nickdandy.livejournal.com]

I don't react differently, just because as a female I said the same things I do now, so when someone says it, I just feel like someone else knows the struggles. Especially when they know about the points system, such as a new date- I was warned by a friend not to talk about weight watchers, but then it turned out when she was talking about a dish, she told me it only had three points...

I think maybe my friend (female) told me not to talk about it to her for that reason too, because it might seem "weird" that I'm focusing on my weight, and a diet, and a girl might find that weird. Might be she thought that because I'm a guy, might be because she just has the metabolism of a gnat, and doesn't realize that many people go through it and talking about it is something a lot of people do when focused on it...Might be because she doesn't think I need to get in shape and am fine the way I am...

But yeah, I am sure there are tons of people out there that do have that double standard, and don't recognize that they do...

It also seems to me more acceptable to "watch what you eat" and eat healthy, rather than declare that you are going on a strict diet and workout regimine...Like you can't seem overly devoted to getting in shape...cause that's just goin' too far...